If you’re going to read one interview from a leader this is it. Reg Bull is a novelist, change management specialist and overall HR adventurist. In his extremely busy schedule he took some time out for all of us to talk about working in the West vs the East, leadership development and working in Asia in general. If nothing else, read the very last question and answer set. It’s probably the best summary of the East meets West working relationship.
Q: Explain what you see as the most significant differences between East Asian and European leaders?
A: The big difference is because of two dead guys: one called Socrates (“Speak truth to power”) and Confucius (“Honor your betters”). The way those two fundamental belief systems have permeated everything in their respective societies from politics, through education, through family, through ‘everything’, is without doubt the cause of the greatest difference between occidental and oriental managers. Try talking employee engagement either side of Longitude 105 degrees E and see what I mean!
Q: What would a typical A-player in the UK look like and what would he look like in China and/or Korea?
A: I think those differences are narrowing from, say, 15 years ago. Issues such as learning agility, authenticity, strategic visioning, and managing ambiguity are the modern, great managerial levelers. I’m not saying that there’s full congruence yet, but the language is colliding at least
Q: Have you adopted a different approach to developing young potential leaders in East Asia than in the West?
A: Yes, I tend to find in the East that it’s still quite structured, maybe even linear, because that is the learned behavior. Whereas in the West, although people still want some structure, it’s much more about emergent learning, sense making, contingent uptake of messaging. That’s why leadership development here also needs some adjustment
Q: Can you share a memorable experience of a learning event you have attended?
A: 1987, at a lakeside resort in Wales, UK. It was my first structured introduction to OD and change, and it blew my mind. Up until then I’d only really seen fragments of a bigger picture and not really understood how to fit them all together. After that event I saw the organizational world in a very different way.
Q: In many parts of Asia, companies are still relying on western expats to run them. Why do you think this is the case and how would you suggest shareholders to change this?
A: It’s a puzzle, isn’t it? I remember being asked that same question in 1995 and mumbling some spontaneous answer about Asia not yet having had the chance to establish a bed-rock of talent. But now we’re 20 years’ on, so what has happened?
Q: I think part of the answer is that there still aren’t enough Asian-headquartered big-ass MNC’s sending expats around the world to learn their trade, who then come back, leave their Mother-ship, and perform big roles for the spiral-arms of Western MNCs. But I think the much bigger reason is that Western businesses still aren’t comfortable with the stylistic management of Asian leaders. It’s easy to talk about diversity, but more difficult to swallow it when it manifests itself daily. There is also the not inconsiderable point that too many potential Asian leaders are migrating to the U.S. for other reasons!
Q: What are the strongest characteristics of Asian leaders? Where do see them lag behind their western compatriots and why?
A: Strongest is a longer term view of things (there’s that Confucius dude again…) and that really is a bonus I believe. Weakness is sometimes a complete misunderstanding about how to motivate people, or rather different types of people. It’s really surprising given the penchant for building relationships ‘externally’, but this still causes the greatest friction in the internal work-space.
If I could add one other, it’s the lack of comfort with speedy and transparent conflict generation. I do of course understand the value of the in-explicit and the implied, but – really guys – the world is spinning faster and faster so the in-the-moment ‘courageous conversation’ is an increasing necessity
Q: Ulrich famously claims that 60-70% of the traits of effective leaders are the same across industry and geographies. Do you agree with this and if not why?
A: Yes, I do. Because I’ve now had the opportunity to work on three continents, across four decades, in three businesses each importing dozens of managers from other MNCs, and you can spot a great leader in any of those using pretty much the same delineators
Q: What drives you to be located in this of the world?
A: The challenge! In Edgar Schein’s famous Career Anchor designations I am the quintessential ‘challenge’ craving manager. Europe was of the 19th century, America of the 20th, and Asia isthe 21st! It’s rough and raw, and it makes me think differently about myself every day. It’s like being on a perpetual MBA program, but with real things to do and no homework
Q: What frustrates you in working in Korea? What makes your day?
A: Frustration is the seniority system (progress primarily based around service) because it holds people back and unnecessarily levels playing fields that should otherwise resemble the Himalayas.
What makes my day is when someone who I have been mentoring, with limited international exposure and maybe poor English, suddenly starts to have a conversation with me about a “global” implementation. It’s like being in Notre Dame with the light streaming in through its stained glass windows.
Q: What are the little differences that made living in China at the end of the 90’s fun and interesting or frustrating for a western expat?
A: There were no “little differences” back then – it was full-on paradigm topsy-turvy. It was a very special place to be at that time because everyone knew its coiled potential but wasn’t quite sure how far it would go and how quickly. But just look at it now!!
Q: If you had to write your book on your 20 years of experiences in leading HR functions in Asia, what would be the title of that book?
A: “Getting the Best of the West to meet the Feast of the East”. And in the movie of the book, I would play Mr. West (because I look like Brad Pitt) and Yoon Eun Hye would play Ms. East because – well – she’s Yoon Eun Hye!!
I honestly find great inspiration in how Reg is able to clearly identify the differences in leadership styles in the East and West. After all, unless you’re able to acknowledge something you can’t really understand and respect it. For all of us who work in mixed cultures, that is the bottom line. To receive more unique insights into the world of HR in frontier markets make sure you’ve subscribed to the blog.